As a kid growing up in New York with an Italian father and an Irish mother, two things were certain at dinnertime — there would either be potatoes or pasta as a starch, and we always had access to a good loaf of bread. Admittedly, my relationship with bread is complicated. I loved bread growing up. Too much, in fact. As an adult, like most people these days, I’ve had to cut my consumption of various refined flour foods to help maintain my weight and avoid things like Type 2 diabetes. I don’t eat much bread these days, but occasionally, I love a good bagel or a loaf of sourdough with a crispy crust and soft dough. The problem, however, is that really good bread is hard to find in our region. It seems that small, independent bakeries have gone the way of most things and have largely disappeared. That’s why John Shively (aka, John Dough) has made it his mission to bring back the small, independent bakery and produce quality, nutritious bread one loaf at a time.
Dave: How did you get into baking bread?
John: I didn’t know what good bread was as a kid. It wasn’t until my 20s that I discovered good bread. At that time, there were no local outlets for a good sourdough. So, I attempted to make it myself. It did not go well at first, but after a year or so of repetition, I finally made something I was happy with, just to fail again, which led to another six-month learning process.
Dave: What do you like about baking?
John: I enjoy the entire process. Hand-mixing raw ingredients, shaping, waiting, and then removing a perfectly baked loaf of bread from the oven is obviously the best part!
Dave: How did baking bread evolve into a home business?
John: During my attempts to “perfect” sourdough bread, always improving and still failing at times, I had more loaves than I knew what to do with. So, friends, neighbors, and family all got whatever was left over. Once word-of-mouth started, it quickly got out of hand. I had random people calling me to ask me to bake them bread because they tried it at a friend or neighbor’s house. Time management is a major factor in this endeavor as well. Managing baking alongside work and social life can be difficult at times, but so far, so good. If it gets to the point where it becomes too stressful, I may reach out and find some help.
Dave: Were there any specific hoops you had to go through to start your business, such as permits, logistics, physical space, etc.?
John: Once I decided that I wanted to bake and sell bread on a larger scale, I started out with the township to get approval for the business. After that, I reached out to the State Department of Agriculture to have an inspection to receive a limited food establishment license. I had a small space on the backside of my garage that I converted into a bakery. This is where all the processing, baking, and packaging takes place.
Dave: What kind of equipment did you start with, and how has that evolved into your current bakery operation?
John: Originally, I started out making individual loaves in a Dutch oven in my kitchen oven. Then, I bumped it up to two or three loaves at a time. I have a large temperature-controlled bulk fermentation proofer along with two dedicated refrigerators. Currently, everything is still mixed by hand. I typically bake in batches of 12 loaves per bin. My maximum daily capacity is somewhere around 72 loaves of sourdough. That is about a 10-hour day, all said and done, from the initial mix to clean-up. It takes anywhere from 4 to 7 hours to make a loaf of bread before cold fermentation. This varies depending on dough temperature and a few other factors. I purchased a large-capacity electric oven late in 2024. It came from England and has three very thick baking stones at each level. This allows me to bake up to 12 loaves at a time. I have just recently ordered a large spiral mixer, which should reduce my hands-on time. I have never used one before, so it should be interesting to try a new process.
Dave: What types of bread do you currently make?
John: I mainly make sourdough bread. Classic loaves, sandwich loaves, and inclusion loaves, such as jalapeño cheddar, Parmesan Reggiano, and seeded loaves. I also make sourdough baguettes, sourdough-focaccia, and I do a gluten-free sourdough. This was at the request of multiple individuals who were looking for good gluten-free bread.
Dave: How is your process different from that of a generic grocery store loaf?
John: Every loaf is made by hand by me. I shape each loaf individually before it gets placed in a banneton and cold fermented for up to 48 hours before baking. The longer the cold fermentation, the more sour the flavor of the bread. The length can be increased past 48 hours, but the risk of overproofing increases exponentially the longer the fermentation.
Dave: How are your ingredients and recipe different from commercial bread?
John: I use three ingredients for my basic bread. Flour, water, and salt. All my breads are naturally fermented using a starter that I created in 2017. I have fed and kept the same starter alive since its creation. There are no commercial yeasts in my bread. The flours I use are not enriched, bleached, or genetically modified. It is as simple as it gets. All breads I make stem from that original method of long fermentation. Grocery store breads have a number of additives and preservatives, which allow them to be shelf stable for up to weeks or even months at a time. A real loaf of sourdough should last around one week. But it doesn’t usually last more than a few days in my house. I have recently been looking into working directly with an organic farm to produce wheat for my sourdough. Stay tuned to see how this story ends.
Dave: Is homemade bread or small bakery bread healthier than store-bought bread, and if so, why?
John: Sourdough bread is often considered healthier than most grocery store breads due to five key factors-natural fermentation, lower glycemic index, nutrient absorption, fewer additives, and it is rich in probiotics.
Natural Fermentation: Sourdough is made using a natural fermentation process with wild yeast and lactic acid bacteria. This process can help break down gluten, making it easier to digest for some people.
Lower Glycemic Index: The fermentation process reduces the bread’s glycemic index, leading to a slower rise in blood sugar compared to conventional bread.
Nutrient Absorption: The lactic acid bacteria improve the bioavailability of nutrients, such as minerals like iron, zinc, and magnesium, by reducing phytic acid, an anti-nutrient that can inhibit absorption.
Fewer Additives: Homemade or artisanal sourdough typically contains simple ingredients without preservatives and additives often found in commercial bread.
Rich in Probiotics: Although most probiotics don’t survive baking, the prebiotics and fermentation byproducts can support gut health.
These are just a few factors that make sourdough a more nutrient-dense and gut-friendly option compared to most standard grocery store breads.
Dave: I’ve read that there is a huge increase in the number of people that are gluten intolerant. Do you think that stems from the way modern bread is processed and the commercial additives and preservatives?
John: I do believe that the increase in gluten intolerance is directly related to the additives and over-processed nature of commercial breads. According to what I’ve read, the rise in gluten intolerance in the U.S. is attributed to changes in wheat composition, with higher gluten content, and environmental factors, such as the overuse of antibiotics and exposure to glyphosate, may also contribute. Additionally, the hygiene hypothesis suggests that reduced exposure to pathogens affects immune system development, potentially increasing gluten sensitivity.
Dave: It seems like things are going very well. Where do you see your bakery in the future, and do you have any projects that you are considering?
John: While dropping off bread recently, I spoke with a woman who told me that she used my jalapeño cheddar sourdough for French toast. It threw me for a loop, but she said it was absolutely delicious with the sweet and spicy combo. I like to hear ideas like this from people; it helps the creative process for me and can lead to new inclusion ideas. I’ve put some pretty odd things in loaves of sourdough. Some of them turn out great, some of them not so much. I have also received several requests for sourdough workshops. This may be something I entertain during the colder months. I would likely rent out a space and hold a workshop on how to make sourdough. From creating a starter to bulk fermentation, shaping, cold fermentation, and baking.
Dave: Where can people find your bread to purchase?
John: my website is john-dough.com. You can also find me on Facebook: John Dough and Instagram: JohnDough_Breads. There is a form on the homepage of the website that allows you to receive notifications of when a “bread drop” will take place. This opens up the website for pre-orders. After the pre-order window closes, the date, time, and location are sent out so those who purchased bread can pick it up. Sometimes, it’s in a building; sometimes, it’s in a parking lot. I also have a stand at the Williamsport Growers Market. I am currently participating every other Saturday from 8 a.m. to 12:30 p.m. or until sold out. Tebbs Farms storefront on Four Mile Drive in Loyalsock has been stocking their shelves on Wednesday mornings with my sourdough. This is a new relationship that seems to be going very well.
